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Dáil Debates in 1945 - '46

Dáil Éireann - Volume 98 - 06 December, 1945 - National Museum ...

Minister for Education (Mr. Derrig): The Director of the National Museum has been absent from his position since July, 1939. He is the same person as Dr. A. Mahr, Keeper of the Irish Antiquities Division. I am not in a position to make any statement regarding the duration of Dr. Mahr's absence, and as the positions which he held in the museum have not been declared vacant, the question of appointing a successor has not yet been considered.

Mr. Dillon: Am I to understand that this gentleman returned to Nazi Germany in time to take part in the nefarious activities of the Nazis in that country and now, having backed the wrong horse, he is sitting there waiting to come back and land here as soon as the opportunity offers? Does the Minister think that such a person is a suitable person to reinstate as director of Ireland's museum, and, if he does not, will he terminate his employment with the equitable compensation and get some respectable citizen of this country to discharge the important duties of the two offices mentioned in my question?

Mr. Derrig: Dr. Mahr was appointed the official Irish representative to the Sixth International Congress of Archaeology to be held in Berlin in August, 1939, and he left Ireland in the preceding month to attend that congress, bringing his family with him to spend a holiday in his native home in Austria. When war became imminent, he tried to return to Dublin but was unable to do so, owing to the delay in [1550] bringing his family from Austria. He then reported to the Irish Chargé d'Affaires, with a view to getting a “safe conduct” to return to Ireland, but it was not possible to have this done and he was granted leave of absence without pay until circumstances permitted him to resume his position. I am not in a position to say anything further at the moment, nor can I say when Dr. Mahr will be in a position to resume.

Mr. Dillon: If this gentleman turns up to-morrow with the battle-stained flag of Nazi Germany wrapped around him, will he be reinstalled in this position? Will we go on retaining a gentleman seated in Germany for the last six years so long as the going was good?

Mr. L.J. Walsh: How do you know he is a Nazi? Are all Germans Nazis?

Mr. Dillon: I am putting a supplementary question. Will we retain this gentleman, or will we say to him: “Your position is now vacated. If there is any compensation equitably due to you under your original agreement, we will give it to you and advertise the position so that some competent Irish scholar can discharge the duties of this job,” or will we install him indefinitely as the Director of the National Museum?

Mr. Derrig: The matter is being considered. No definite decision has been come to, pending a clarification of the position as to whether Dr. Mahr will be in a position to return to his post. The Government may come to a decision in the matter. No decision has been come to so far. As I have said, the position has not been declared vacant and the question of appointing a successor does not arise. I do not think the House would expect me to answer the statement that Deputy Dillon has made, nor do I consider it within my province. I think the Deputy has rather exceeded the privileges which apply to him as a member of the House in the statement he has made regarding a person who is still, technically at any rate, an officer of the Irish Civil Service.

Mr. Dillon: “Technically” is good. When will you make up your mind about it, one way or the other?

The following is part of a debate about giving an extra £1,000 to the Royal Irish Academy to subsidise foreign scholars, not welcome in their own countries, who would have a contribution to make Irish scholarship.

Dáil Éireann - Volume 103 - 13 November, 1946

Mr. Dillon: I remember at one time there was a “wangle” to restore to public employment in this country a gentleman who was at one time leader of the Hitler Youth in this country and a colleague of the head of the Gestapo in this city. I am happy to think that some references which I made here helped to scotch that plan and to ensure that the gentleman in question having gone back to Hamburg has been left in Hamburg.

An Ceann Comhairle Frank Fahy: There is no money for him in this Vote.

Mr. Dillon: Wait a minute.

An Ceann Comhairle Frank Fahy: I have been waiting for several minutes.

Mr. Dillon: I wonder is there no money for him in this Vote? That is just the very thing I am working round to. Is Dr. Mahr going to represent to us that he is a great authority on Celtic remains in and around Hamburg and to sit down again in the Royal Irish Academy? If he got wind of the word, he would be coming like a tornado. He has been trying it for the last 12 months. I have no grudge against him but he took his hook out of this country on the eve of the war and thought that he would come back with a Brown Shirt and a Swastika——

An Ceann Comhairle Frank Fahy: The Deputy is travelling very far outside the terms of the Estimate.

Mr. Dillon: Will the Minister give us a guarantee that Dr. Mahr who is at present holding office, on leave of absence without pay, as Director of our Museum, is not coming back under this scheme? Is he or any of his ilk going to come here under this scheme? I should like a guarantee from the Minister on that point. I suggest that, if he does get the money, he should at least give us the assurance that before any appointment is made to the academy or to any other like body, which is to be financed out of moneys of this character, the approval of this House will be sought for the foreign professor whom it is proposed to appoint. Let me add this. Ordinarily I think nothing is more undesirable than that Dáil Éireann should interfere in the internal administration of a university, an academy or an institute in this country.

I believe that such learned bodies should be absolutely autonomous but when we are asked to furnish money to employ a miscellaneous collection of foreigners, we should be guaranteed against the possibility of giving, in advance, approval to the employment of individuals of whom we do not approve at all and an assurance that these moneys will be used only for the employment of such persons as the Polish scholar to whom the Minister has referred and to others who may [797] present themselves and who will be accepted on merit alone. Given that assurance I have no objection to the Estimate though I view it with considerable misgivings for the very reason which the observations of the Ceann Comhairle have induced me to refer to it specifically.

Mr. Aiken: I have not asked the Dáil for a blank cheque. I have proposed that the Dáil should vote a Supplementary Estimate of £1,000, a strictly limited sum, to add to the sum of about £3,200 which the academy, this learned institution, is already getting as a State grant for this purpose. I have no right to interfere with the academy in the spending of this fund. If I proposed to interfere with the academy in the spending of this fund, the person who would be the most loud-mouthed in denouncing me here would be Deputy Dillon. I take it that if the gentleman who was in charge of the National Museum were to come back to Ireland to work, it would be in the Museum, and not in the academy, that he would work. I have no brief for him. I do not know whether he will ever come back to this country or not. Deputy Dillon wants to take advantage of this Dáil to abuse everybody, right left and centre, to kick people who are down, but I say this for that gentleman, that he went towards the fighting, unlike Deputy Dillon.

Mr. Dillon: That is an offensive and impudent observation for you to make.

Mr. Aiken: No more offensive than the Deputy's.

Mr. Dillon: And the Minister is an impudent and offensive man.

Mr. Aiken: The Deputy thinks he has the sole licence to be offensive in this House. On every occasion on which he can throw dirt on the Government and on his country, which he hopes will be used to get him patted on the back by the enemies of this country abroad, he comes in here and throws the dirt.

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